• 2009-03-20

    [转载]The plight of the poor application paper - [MathCS]

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    http://dionysus.blogbus.com/logs/36786431.html

    http://matt-welsh.blogspot.com/2009/02/plight-of-poor-application-paper.html
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    Saturday, February 28, 2009

    The plight of the poor application paper

    My research is unapologetically applications-driven: we've deployed sensor networks

    for monitoring volcanoes, disaster response, and for measuring limb movements in

    patients with Parkinson's Disease. One of the joys of working on sensor networks is

    that a lot of exciting research derives from close collaborations with domain

    experts, shedding light on challenges that we wouldn't otherwise be exposed to. It

    also keeps us in check and ensures we're working on real problems, rather than

    artificial ones.

    At the same time, it's a sad truth that "deployment" or "application" papers often

    face an uphill battle when it comes to getting published in major conferences. I've

    seen plenty of (good!) application-focused papers get dinged in program committees

    for, well, simply not being novel enough. Now, we could have a healthy argument

    about the inherent novelty of building a real system, getting it to work, deploying

    it in a challenging field setting, and reporting on the results. But it's true that

    these papers are pretty different than those about a new protocol, algorithm, or

    language. I've thought a bit about what makes it harder for apps papers to get into

    these venues and have come up with the following observations.

    1) Getting something to work in the real world often involves simplifying it to the

    point where most of the "sexy" ideas are watered down.

    It is very rare for a successful sensor network deployment to involve brand-new,

    never-before-published techniques; doing so would involve a tremendous amount of

    risk. Generally it's necessary to use fairly robust code that embodies well-worn

    ideas, at least for the underpinnings of the system design (MAC, routing, time sync,

    and so forth). As a result, the components of the system design might end up not

    being very novel. Also, many application papers involve a combination of several

    "well known" techniques, but combined together in interesting ways. Still, when a

    reviewer picks apart a paper piece by piece, it's hard to identify the individual

    contributions. The hope is that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts; but

    this is often difficult to convey.

    There is a way to avoid this problem, and that is to write the paper about something

    other than the "mundane" aspects of the system design itself. For our OSDI paper on

    the volcano sensor network, we decided to focus on the validation of the network's

    operation during the deployment, not the individual pieces that made up the system.

    Although it took a lot of work to take the "well-tested" implementations of major

    components (such as MultihopLQI) and get them to work robustly in the field, we

    didn't think the paper could rest on that refinement of previously-published ideas.

    The Berkeley paper on monitoring redwoods took a similar approach by focusing on the

    data analysis.

    2) Academic research tends to reward those who come up with an idea first, not those

    who get the idea to work.

    There are lots of great ideas in the literature that have only been studied in

    simulation or small-scale experiments. Almost no credit goes to those who manage to

    get an idea actually deployed and working under less certain conditions. So even

    though it might take an incredible amount of sweat to take, say, a routing protocol

    and get it working on real hardware in a large-scale field deployment, unless you

    ended up making substantial changes to the protocol, or learned something new about

    its operation, you're unlikely to get much credit for doing so.

    We learned this the hard way with our paper on adapting the ADMR multicast protocol

    to work on motes, which we needed for the CodeBlue medical monitoring platform. It

    turns out that taking an existing protocol (which had only been studied using ns-2

    with a simplistic radio model, and without consideration for memory or bandwidth

    limitations of mote-class devices), and implementing it on real hardware, didn't

    blow away the program committees the way we hoped it would. Eventually, we did

    publish this work (in the aptly-named REALMAN workshop). But the initial reviews

    contained things like "everybody knows that MANET protocols won't work on motes!"

    That was frustrating.

    3) Deployments carry a substantial risk that the system won't actually work, making

    it harder to convince a reviewer that the paper is worth accepting.

    Maybe there should be a built-in handicap for real deployment papers. Whereas in the

    lab, you can just keep tweaking and rerunning experiments until you get the results

    you want, this isn't possible in the field. On the other hand, it's not clear that

    we can really hold deployment papers to a different standard; after all, what

    constitutes a "real" deployment? Is an installation of nodes around an academic

    office building good enough? (We've seen plenty of those. If the world ever wants to

    know the average temperature or light level of the offices in a CS department, we

    are ready!) Or does it have to be in some gritty, untethered locale, like a forest,

    or a glacier? Does use of machetes and/or pack animals to reach the deployment site

    count for anything?

    Of course, it is possible to get a great paper out of a deployment that goes

    sideways. The best way is to write the paper as a kind of retrospective, explaining

    what went wrong, and why. These papers are often entertaining to read, and provide

    valuable lessons for those attempting future work along the same lines. Also,

    failures can often take your research into entirely new directions, which I've

    blogged about before. As an example, we ended up developing Lance specifically to

    address the data quality challenges that arose in our deployment at Reventador. We

    would have never stumbled across that problem had our original system worked as

    planned.

    One thing I don't think we should do is sequester deployment and application papers

    in their own venues, for example, by having a workshop on sensor networks

    applications. I understand the desire to get like-minded people together to share

    war stories, but I think it's essential that these kinds of papers be given equal

    billing with papers on more "fundamental" topics. In the best case, they can enrich

    an otherwise dry technical program, as well as inpire and inform future research.

    Besides, the folks who would go to such a workshop don't need to be convinced of the

    merits of application papers.

    Personally, I'd like to see a bunch of real deployment papers submitted to Sensys

    2009. Jie and I are thinking of ways of getting the program committee to think

    outside the box when reviewing these papers, and any suggestions as to how we should

    encourage a more open-minded perspective are most welcome.
    Posted by Matt Welsh at 1:18 PM
    9 comments:

    Ramakrishna Gummadi said...

        There's a fourth concern I have heard with building and deploying artifacts,

    which is their relative transience vis-a-vis ideas.

        One way to counter this handicap is for the community to promote application-

    driven research that either validates or points out significant drawbacks in making

    ideas work in practice. For e.g., in fields such as experimental Physics, it's even

    possible to obtain a Ph.D. for repeating prior ideas or claims carefully.
        March 1, 2009 8:10 PM
    Barath said...

        "Maybe there should be a built-in handicap for real deployment papers."

        Another, perhaps less popular approach might be to require that all papers (in

    OSDI, for example) release the source code / test scripts used in the experiments

    described in the paper. This would shine a light on papers that were based upon

    unrealistic simulations or that don't deal with hard implementation details, and

    might tip the balance back toward application papers.
        March 1, 2009 10:03 PM
    Ramakrishna Gummadi said...

        "Another, perhaps less popular approach might be to require that all papers (in

    OSDI, for example) release the source code / test scripts used in the experiments

    described in the paper."

        I think SIGMOD made this stuff a mandatory requirement last year. I'm not sure

    if the results changed significantly.
        March 2, 2009 11:26 AM
    Matt Welsh said...

        I'm not sure that releasing source code is going to help matters much. PC

    members are overwhelmed with it is and I doubt that anyone would have time to take a

    serious look at the code/scripts/etc. when evaluating a paper. I guess it's a good

    idea in the sense that you could be "audited" at any time by a reviewer, but, it

    also opens up the potential for abuse where a PC member shoots down a paper due to

    lack of understanding of the code (or not liking the coding style, or some other

    trivial issue).
        March 2, 2009 5:01 PM
    Barath said...

        True, releasing code wouldn't help during the review process. However, it might

    help on a longer timescale - it would enable repeatability of experiments (something

    that the community talks about but doesn't do that much in practice), and might keep

    folks from submitting papers they can't back up with code by the time the camera

    ready is due. That in turn would (indirectly) help application papers.

        That said, it might prove too unpopular...
        March 3, 2009 1:17 PM
    ephermata said...

        How about having people explicitly mark as part of the submission process that

    their paper should be considered as an application paper, then allocating reviewers

    accordingly? For SenSys in particular, there should be plenty of PC members and

    subreviewers who have the background and experience to judge these papers. There are

    plenty of issues in figuring out what is a good application paper, several of which

    you have raised. Most of these seem to come down to needing reviewers that have the

    appropriate "taste" in judging the paper.

        Having authors mark "this is an application paper, judge it by those criteria"

    at submission time would save time and match the paper to the right people. Of

    course you would not necessarily have every single PC member on the paper be an

    "applications person," just to keep things from becoming too inbred. Still, it would

    be a way to fairly evaluate such papers and give them a fighting chance without

    splitting off into a separate conference.

        I agree with the concern about splitting into a separate conference, by the way.

    I have seen cases where creating a new conference or workshop pays off with great

    new research (e.g. Privacy Enhancing Technologies, Usenix Electronic Voting

    Technologies), but in general I worry about fields becoming balkanized. Hard enough

    as it is to keep up with all the work coming out in the main focus of an area.
        March 3, 2009 9:12 PM
    Michael Mitzenmacher said...

        Hi Matt. I sympathize. I admit I kind of like the idea of "marking" a paper as

    an applications paper in some way, although one would hope that most people in the

    area would be able to read and judge such a paper appropriately.

        I've actually just put up a post I've been tinkering with for a few weeks on the

    plight of the poor theory paper for networking/systems conferences. Good timing. :)
        March 5, 2009 6:57 AM
    Ramakrishna Gummadi said...

        "I admit I kind of like the idea of "marking" a paper as an applications paper

    in some way"

        I think Mike's suggestion is good. For what it's worth, SIGCOMM 2009 has "focus"

    tags such as "system implementation" in addition to the traditional topics

    classifiers.
        March 5, 2009 11:17 PM
    HfHoeP5ovPKs1QkXrzDOvVuASQELNZnVYco- said...

        Matt,

        Welcome to my world. I think that in today's system, research credit through

    real deployments comes not so much through traditional measures as through the

    respect of one's peers, as measured through your tenure letters. As we know, this

    measurement depends greatly on whom is asked.

        Over the years I have squeezed out quite a few papers because it is hard to

    build something serious without learning *something* new, which you can then

    publish. It is a harder sell to solve an old problem in a new way, but sometimes

    that can be done, too.

        Norman
        March 17, 2009 3:59 PM

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